EP. 16 What Makes A Country “Unrecognized”

0:00 Hey everybody! It's so cold in here... it's so cold... So, I got my hoodie on. Got my cat, being a cat. And got my e-cat (? lol). So, I got some I got some DMS saying that my podcast actually made it on some people's Spotify wrapped :) Which is freaking crazy, and I have no idea how that would happen... because I don't have that many things. But I just want to say thank you~ If you're listening to the podcast version on Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you guys are finding this from. I appreciate you and I love you *blows kisses* And okay so...

0:40 This type of video was highly requested via TikTok, asking can you make a problematic country tier list? And I thought to make it fair we have to rank all 195 right? And that just sounds like so much fun! And I'm nowhere near close to being done with that video yet... But what I did come across that was also so much fun while researching that video was the realization that there were a lot of unrecognized countries in the world! So today we're going to be exploring what makes a country a legitimate country in the International Space and what makes a country unrecognized or fake.

1:30 First off, I am so glad you decided to Adventure with me today~ I'm Reese Grey and on Reese Grey Analyzes, we look at creations and experiences in art, media, music and even video games, and other real life events such as this one... to explore exactly why we think the way we think, question what we believe, and learn something new! And so much of what is reality is just based on a communal agreement that something somewhere exists. And so far the International Community largely agree that 195 countries exist, and honestly at most people can probably name like what 20 countries right? Like, I don't know is that too generous? Like, too little? Maybe? How many countries can you guys name? Uh, leave it in the comments. I'll just see like "America" in there's a comment section *giggle*

2:20 This total includes 193 countries that are members of the United Nations, and two countries that are non-member Observer States. And those are the Holy See and the state of Palestine. And if you're like... Why do the United Nations get to decide on who's a country at all? Well, the United Nations are an intergovernmental organization whose stated purpose is to "maintain International Peace and security and develop friendly relations among nations in order to achieve this International cooperation". The United Nations kind of works as like a center for the harmonizing actions of Nations. Think of its subsidiaries which is the World Health Organization which a lot of people are probably familiar in this day and age with. And, it's just a funky fresh place that tries to keep countries accountable per se, and have General standards of practices, so everybody gets along. Or tries to get along, right? And you know, sometimes you know we don't, but thanks UN:).

3:34 And we also have this quote unquote you know "countries" such as Taiwan. I'M NOT TRYING TO GET POLITICAL HERE. It's just--- it's, it's an admission to the fact that they are in a contentious area of statehood right now, with Taiwan, um, kind of saying they are not a part of China, and China saying yes you are. So there's like contentious--- this gray area of country-hood and sovereignty. So when we ask, what makes a country a country, is there a standard? And yes. You can pick a flag, write out your national anthem, print up money with your face on it, but you can't just Proclaim and declare that a country exists. If you watched Better Call Saul there's this dude who wanted to secede from the United States, and it's a great example of someone who thought it was a little bit too easy to declare independence. International law does specify a minimum standard for Statehood, so 1.) you must have a defined territory. Which is maybe the easiest part, you know. If you have just like a plot of land. 2.) You must have a permanent population, and 3.) you must have a working government, your government must be capable of interacting with other states, or other governments.

4:50 Now, you might think, well that's not too hard right? Me and my friends can-- can come up with something. I could start a country, well uh no, because that's where politics come in. And just because you've met the qualifications and declared yourself independent it doesn't mean that you're going to be taken seriously in international law. Some examples of countries that exist in this political gray area are Transnistria, which is in east Europe, Somaliland which is in Africa, the principality of sea land which is currently a British territory, and Taiwan which is commonly thought to be a territory of mainland China. And we'll go by those one by one so Transnistria is an internationally unrecognized Breakaway state that is currently internationally recognized as just a part of Moldova, which is in east Europe and its ethnic groups are mostly Russians, but include Moldovans and Ukrainians. So Transnistria attempted to declare independence from Moldova in the 90's and then later the Soviet Union in 1991, so you might be thinking why did Transnistria want to secede from Moldova? What's what's wrong with Moldova? Why did they want independence?

6:12 Well, in 1980s there was a man named Mikhail Gorbachev, who is a Russian and Soviet politician who served as the last leader of the Soviet Union in 1985 until the country's dissolution in 1991 when the Cold War ended. So Gorbachev wanted to enact policies that would help the Soviet Union economically, and Gorbachev's policies were called "perestroika" and "glasnost". The literal meaning of perestroika was reconstruction and glasnost was openness. So Gorbachev hoped that with these policies of openness in the economy they were hoping to speed up this sluggish command economy. And in a command economy the government tells you how much you need to pay your employees, and how much your goods need to sell for, and how much Goods that you need to make. Opposed to how in the market economy, a store can choose how much they pay their employees, and how much they sell their goods for. In the market economy what you make is determined by how much demand there is, in the command economy there is no decisions that are made off of supply and demand.

7:32 So with Gorbachev's proposed policies, he wanted to make this sort of Middle Ground between like this command economy and this market economy. So can you integrate both ideas? And this alleged goal of integration of both ideas was not to end the command economy, but rather to make socialism work more efficiently. That was the goal. The law stipulated under Gorbachev of that state Enterprises were free to determine output levels based on the demand from consumers and other Enterprises. So you think, oh, that that sounds like it that's a pretty good deal right? However, Enterprises still had to fulfill the state orders because remember; it's a command economy. And at the same time, the state still held control over the means of production. So they were kind of wanting to have their cake and eat it too. Like the government can tell you, well, how much cake to make... and if people want to buy more cake, you can make more cake. But it wasn't really adding a boost to what the Soviet Union needed in their economy. What implementing perestroika did do was actually added to the existing shortages. And it created this political and social and economic tension within the Soviet Union. And this ladies and gentlemen is why Transnistria was born.

8:50 So, perestroika is actually kind of blamed for this political Ascent of nationalism due to this like political liberalization at a regional level granted by Gorbachev. There was actually tons of creations of of little informal movements all over the Soviet Union. And a rise to nationalism within a lot of Soviet republics. So people were like, working to benefit their group. So there was pro-Romanian nationalism amongst people in Moldova, because not everyone can benefit in this time period, in this economy, so you're going to fight for your group of people to come out on top. So this is how this pro-nationalism kind of helped. It was a way to cope. So starting on March 2nd 1992 after Transnistria formally declared independence, there was actually military action. So between Moldova and this newly formed Transnistria, so there was war this fighting intensified throughout the year so these former Soviet guards actually opened fire against Moldovans, and reportedly they killed 700 people. And since then, Moldova has effectively had no influence in Transnistria, because after that conflict, there was a ceasefire agreement.

10:32 So Transnistria exists within this gray area, yet it is independent because of this ceasefire, even though internationally transnetria is considered Moldova they have Independence. So it's kind of this like political gray area type thing which is so fun and so interesting. And if you happen to be from this part of the world, I I am no expert in this okay, I'm just trying to give people a little bit of educational entertainment in the best way I can. If I like messed up on representing you know, the country's history a little bit, and you're from there and have have something uh to say please do let me know in the comments, because it's not a super crazy thing that something like that can happen! Because you know, the internet is a crazy place! So just let me know, DM me.

11:20 Another fun example of a country that tries to be a country and meets the requirements, but it's not internationally recognized as such, is Somaliland. So Somaliland is in the Horn of Africa, and is considered internationally to just be a part of Somalia, much like Transnistria in the 1980s there was resistant movements that were supported by Ethiopia's communist Derg Administration. And this led to this Somaliland war of independence. So no foreign power actually recognizes Somaliland as a sovereign country, or as a Sovereign Nation or state but it is self-governing with an independent government just like Transnistria, and Somaliland actually has Democratic elections and it's actually very densely populated. Somaliland is generally regarded as safer than Somalia itself and you might think well... then, that kind of sounds like a good deal, like why doesn't Somaliland and Somalia just integrate? But that's kind of similar to asking well why doesn't Austria and Germany just integrate if they're both Germans? Or why don't North and South Korea just integrate because they're both Korean? Politics and history baby. And those concerns are as legitimate as they are complicated.

12:51 So one argument as to why Somaliland isn't officially recognized although Somaliland's biggest industry is selling livestock mainly to Arab countries. This Region's economy is also dependent on money sent home from migrants who are working overseas. So it doesn't really have much economic power, really. But there's a there's a fun political fact here, that you know, if Somaliland can convince the African Union to support their desire, the UN would likely support the recognition of Somaliland as a state! So you can see how politics has has a lot to do with this, and African countries are just so unique and and complex, and I know that I'm probably missing out on a lot here, but that's not where the bulk of my studies were like, even though I studied international relations... so hopefully this was a really good like little taster into you know the complexity of of those countries~

13:50 So moving on to basically the meme of fake countries, we have the principality of sea land. Honestly, this is the meme of countries. And in the principality of sea land understands this themselves, really. It only has 27 residents based on a survey that I found in 2007, opposed from previously discussed Transnistria which has 500 000 people and Somaliland actually has five million people... so just, that no one lives here, basically. And it's presently a British territory, and you can simply become a lord or Lady of the principality of Sealand by buying a certificate! The Lord or lady title cannot be put on your passport or anything from your own country because it's not a legal Lord or lady title it's kind of just something to hang up for fun in your in your bedroom. And hey, it is fun, it's just kind of expensive, it's kind of similar to buying a star, right? Like it's just a silly fun thing to do. You can buy like cute little desk flags and stuff from their online store, and it's really fun and less serious than the other two countries mentioned that had War.

15:20 So as you know, none of the aforementioned countries nor the principality of Sealand will be Marching In Their Own independent Olympics anytime soon. But we can see how conflicts can even arise from Olympic recognition, because that has like a lot of political pull you know? Politics is all about what people believe, and so we even see countries like Taiwan being touted as the "Republic of China" in the Olympics. Country-hood like hinges heavily on politics and can get really complicated and really sticky. And that might make you think well well the recognition as an independent country doesn't matter right? If it's just political? But it does matter because if your state is established, there are benefits that you will get. So even if you're not recognized as a legal state, if you have a territory you will even have benefits. So I'll reference Stefan Talmon who is a professor of public international law at Oxford University, an author of "recognition and international law". He puts an example that now that Kosovo is established as a state, Serbia can no longer freely attack Kosovo and bring it back into Serbia. Which kind of mirrors what we saw with Transnistria, because now with Transnistria we have a ceasefire between Moldova and Transnistria. So as long as you have like a little bit of recognition in your state, then you have some benefits!

16:50 So you get the like Integrity of like territorial integrity. And the guarantee that you have some sovereignty because it's it's a huge breath of relief to know that you cannot be freely attacked, so you benefit from this prohibition of the use of force and that comes under the UN Charter. These rules were established actually during the Cold War to predict these new states that were not yet recognized by one block or another. So you can see why a lot of these states popped up after the Cold War, or and they wanted you know some protection to know that they weren't going to be attacked, and put under the force of the country that they were last a part of.

17:33 So what did we learn? What did we learn from this little Adventure here, we learned that there's not much point into having your own-- own country, unless other countries really acknowledge Your Existence. And if you need some like military protection like if you're a breakaway state right? So this International recognition is what gives countries this legitimacy in international politics. nd some people say that recognition is this like purely political act, and it's kind of at this like discretion of the existing States whether or not they recognize someone. so there is like almost no right to recognition in the international law space. and this is especially true like during the Cold War with this like National legitimacy of like no North and South Vietnam, North and South Korea, West and East of Germany, like it all depends on which side you ask which side was legitimate. and even today some states are recognized by some and not others like Palestine, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus.

18:53 And another fun fact for the United States, is that there is no official policy on what is required to recognize a country. So according to the state department the decision to recognize a country is based off of whether the President says so or not. And then the president decides on whether or not to enact a diplomatic relations with countries, kind of based on U.S national interests. It's so funny because you can like apply for U.N membership too, just like on the internet. Which again would be a great twitch stream. So all you need to do is write a letter, you just need to write a letter to the Secretary General requesting a membership and I'll pull that up right now so you guys can do that if you want you know as a summer project, yeah, politics is just about rules and recognition and what we all agree on and that's important, you know? And like even your sense of statehood and nationalism is important because if you recognize your citizenship and your national identity then you're encouraged to follow laws. If you didn't respect this statehood of where you are then you wouldn't respect the laws and there would be chaos. So of course there needs to be this like philosophical understanding of following rules and laws and maybe if you don't respect you know the borders at least you've respect the consequences right? You don't want to be in jail, so and you know that there's are going to be some consequences if you do commit some sort of crimes, because you believe in the nation that will enact these these punishments, or these laws.

20:53 So and that that's like a huge conversation again, and then you're getting like really like philosophical and like political uh based on you know, then we're like talking about like law and police and stuff, and that's like a whole new conversation, so we won't get into that there, but yeah. So politics, like creates rules and enacts rules and it wouldn't work without people following them, and respecting them, and thinking that there's you know some type of legitimacy along to these rules. And I think it's really fun to like point out the little things that we take like for granted, that like you need passports to go to different countries and stuff, and kind of like what who like decided that? Who did that?

21:25 So I hope this wasn't super dry and boring and I think it's fun to to kind of learn about the little things in the world that we kind of like just move past, it's really fun to me at least, so I hope this was fun for you guys too. Let me know in the comments because I know this is like a huge like discussion, so let me know like what I missed, what you guys think, because like these rules and these like identities are like so important and what it's what makes the world where work really is this this these definitions. It's really funny because you'd think it'd be more stringent, but it's really just not, and it's like well what does everyone think? Yep. Okay, This country's good? Okay, cool. It's good, cool. I'm like and that's why I think it's it's like important to keep like striving to learn, and then on top of learning is to also like root your intentions in kindness because it just helps you make the best decisions based off of the the things that you know. Because life is complicated and like life is really dependent on our beliefs at the end of the day because it's like a literal place can exist because we think it does and a place can not have as much legitimacy because we think it doesn't.

22:35 It's pretty wild. So although there's still so many intricacies, and so much things to be said about like the principality of sealand, Transnistria, Somaliland and of course Taiwan, and there are so many other countries that are in the same boat too this list is in no way exhaustive. This little Adventure is a little like entertaining reminder you know that Collective belief is so Paramount in politics. And you know Collective belief has real life consequences, so I really hope you guys enjoyed this this little adventure! And thank you so much for adventuring with with me today. What is your favorite non-country-- country-- country. Because honestly, I know it's stupid, but the principality of sealand, like I almost bought like a desk flag. I'm so serious. Like cute. Okay guys I'll see you guys, later love you bye <3